Tiny Tina and The Bigger Problem

It should have never been an issue. People rile themselves up to be popular.

While I disagree with his stance, it's unfortunate that he resigned because of all this. I have not played BL2 but I have been seeing quite a lot of these kinds of controversies strike up in the past few months with multiple fictional characters with a similar trope. I don't feel like it is exactly a racist way to portray a character because I see as that kind of accent that people of a multitude of races and backgrounds have in real life. I see it as offensive as making a character have a southern accent (which is not seen as offensive). I feel the problem occurs when that characters background is used as the joke. From my understanding that is not the case in the game but rather the joke is what she says.

Why do twitter debates like this always end up with someone losing their job?

im just going to take a step back here and note that a great big god damn majority of people who are calling burch out are racially motivated white folks who are using an innocent work of fiction (that isnt the least bit harmful or detrimental to any persons or cultures) and are using it to take a high ground on an issue that really isnt their issue to take the high ground on, because, you know, theyre white.

on a more accusatory note I'd bet that a lot of these people are just upset that tina just isnt talking like a cute little white girl should talk, you know, like a white person, not dumb, like one of the not white kids.

Even if she was black why would it be racist? If the character was demonstrated to have a low intellect and spoke using a certain dialect then you may have a case of racism through stereotyping. However in this case Tina was shown to be a very smart character especially at her age and she was spoken of as the best demolition expert.

It is the presumption by some people that someone speaking using a certain lingo to be beneath them that is racist. Anyone claiming that Tiny Tina is racist is actually racist themselves, as they are making assumptions about a character based on their own stereotypes of their dialect.

I think what we have here is a classic example of two people viewing a situation differently and outside sources creating drama when there was no need for any in the first place. Sacco's complaint is something the Borderlands writers probably never noticed. As you said before I don't believe any one (or at least very few people) would sit and actively try to demean an entire race of people with a character in a game. I think we can chalk this up to trying to express a character archetype in a different way which the writers never considered could be offensive to someone. I don't have any experience with the Borderlands series (unfortunately) apart from watching it on the feed a few times, but I just can't imagine how this situation led to a man resigning his position with there being a lot of ego and bravado involved. Hopefully though this will make people think a little more about their characters going forward.

From what I read he wasn't an actual employee of Cryptozoic but a contractor and his contract was terminated for other reasons.

As for what I feel, I don't see how this is at all racist? Both his comment and Tiny Tina herself.

I watch a highlight reel of Tiny Tina and I don't see anything wrong. If it is her dialect that is making her racist, I don't see the point because the way she is speaking is not even slang. I think Mike Sacco's debate is a little faulty since I really don't know anybody who talks like that, and if they did, I wouldn't assume that they are dumber than I am because of ethnic background. It was people who got pissed off after the Kotaku post who are at fault because they shouldn't have taken the problem to Sacco's employer.

I don't really see a racial issue within video games. There may be something I'm missing out on or I don't see, but I know it is not about every character in a game having the same skin color.

Whenever I heard Tiny Tina talking, and those moments came up when she used words like "crunk" my immediate thought was "she sounds like a subruban white person doing a shit impersonation of what they think people in the hood talk like." However, I think that was the point. Tiny Tina isn't meant to be funny because "lol she talks all ghetto, cuz black people always sound so funny" she's funny because her character is making fun of white people who verbally butcher ghetto slang in an attempt to sound cool. That's just what I took away from that character though, both as someone who's seen a lot of Anthony Burch's work since Destructoid and HAWP, and as someone who grew up in the ghetto.

If I did feel in any way that Tina or any other character was being comedic at the expense of people who talk the way me, my friends, and a lot of people where I grew up talk, I'd definitely be bothered by it, regardless of how I feel about the writer, and there have been moments where this kind of stuff HAS bothered be....... like when Carlos played 50 Cent: Blood on the Sand on the feed, and chat was aflame with mock-ebonics the likes of which makes Tiny Tina sound like Mary Poppins by comparison. Just sayin'.

Let me say this in a way those who think it's racist will understand since it's the only way to get through to them. I'm black and I approve of Tina.

From what I played of Borderlands 2, Tiny Tina is by far my favorite character. I think that stems more from her age in connection to her dialect rather than her race.

I think the biggest problem here is why on earth did he stir up a shitstorm on Twitter? It seems to me if you have a serious problem with something in a game, you'd write a well thought out letter, not a short quip on Twitter. Maybe he wasn't trying to start anything, maybe he just didn't even think before posting, who knows. I also find it strange that all this drama happens so long after the game was released; this seems more like something that should've happened back in September if people were really concerned that Tiny Tina was racist. That said, I never even considered anything she said racist.

Personally, I hope that Burch stands by his writing instead of changing her. People these days are getting offended at everything and anything and expecting the world to change for them and it's getting ridiculous.

Tiny Tina is probably one of my favorite characters in the past decade. Ashly Burch nailed what I think Anthony was trying to write.

First, people should know waaay better than to discuss something very personal like race or sexism on the internet without being able to stand by their words and see the possible consequences. An e-mail would've done just the same damn thing.

Second, most everyone has covered the points I would. I'd like to wonder if this ever went to a court case or some sort of legal situation, and all of Tina's lines were called up. "Okay, it says here she says 'MAKE IT RAAAAIN'. Now is that a term only for a certain race group? Should we survey a group of different races to make a small survey that would eventually be inaccurate of the entire population of both races?"

Seems like the same kind of idiocy that would recommend idiot 'wigger' kids who generally try to act another 'cooler' race to suddenly be illegal. If Tiny Tina's inclusion of possibly racist slang is in fact, racist, then we need to go find those 'wigger' kids and throw 'em behind bars too.

To make a point even longer, with the least amount of spoilers, there is a situation where Tiny Tina does not speak like she does in the majority of the game. So take what you want out of that.

People are just longing för something to be offended by aren't they?

The point here -- which Soha makes very obvious -- is that we're dealing with racist tropes. It doesn't matter if you're not personally offended. These tropes exist in our culture and our entertainment, and it's important to talk about them and weed them out.

This is not even worth a discussion.

I think this debate is absolutely absurd. This is not racist. Racism is the belief that race determines human traits, and this makes one group superior to another. It can also mean prejudice or discrimination, but I don't see Tiny Tina being discriminated against for being white in the game. Unless Tiny Tina's white-ness makes her superior to a black character, this isn't about racism. If there's going to be any dialogue, it should be about stereotypes.

That being said, I had to go back and listen to voice clips to see what people were even upset about. I never got the impression she was based on a certain racial stereotype. So she says, "make it rain," and "bazonkas," and "cruunnk." Honestly, I talk like that sometimes. Does that make me "racist" too?--I don't think so. Saying, "Oh snap son. I hear the train coming," can be associated with one single race. Language like this is extremely prevalent in pop-culture. We're inundated with it daily. You see what you want. If you associate that sort of language with black people, then I believe you're still in a mindset that only black people do/can speak like that.

My first thought was "Who the hell is Mike Sacco?" Then I clicked his twitter link and immediately realized that I wasn't going to like him. Then I read on and quickly found I strongly disagree with his position of censoring humor of how people perceive others around them. Then, when I heard he quit his job of doing whatever he did at Cryptozoic Entertainment because he was told to let it go, I realized that he is an idiot and that nothing of value was lost.

Tiny Tina was one of the more charming npcs in the game and the one character I wish had more missions for. Her manic personality changing from the jive talker, to uppercrust snob, to rambling madness made the entertaining to listen to. But to try to remove a character because they are of racial overtones is foolish and counterproductive. Racial tropes are all over in entertainment. Samuel L Jackson plays an Uncle Tom in Django Unchained. Mad World's Black Baron is the epitomy of the flashy black pimp. Charlie Barnett, the man who taught Dave Chappel how to do stand up, made a living impersonating caricatures of blacks, whites, Asians, Puerto Ricans, anyone he sees in the crowds he drew.

Tropes exist because they are recognizable, we see something and we instantly know what it means. We know the fat cats in Washington are the senators doing as they will with our lives while getting rich for it. I'm from the suburbs, white people using black slang is extremely common and often is very open for ridicule, except by Jamie Kennedy because he is just awful at everything. Humor will always skirt the line of what is and is not objectionable, by its very nature it must make us slightly uncomfortable and have to assure us that it is safe. There is no victimless joke, we need the objectionable content to make humor.

If 2012 was a year of sexual harassment in gaming, then 2013 is shaping up to be a year of racism. This issue is much ado about nothing. By the way, Scooter is a blame stereotype of a southern hillbilly. Let's put that on twitter.

Stereotypes =/= racism.
This and any other stereotypical trope are completely acceptable as long as it does not imply that one race is superior or inferior to any other. If she was black and blasting rap music it would still be fine because none of these stereotypes imply racism.
I love how its okay to have all these stereotypes (As others have said the British and southern hillbilly stereotypes) but as soon as a character speaks some form of slang its no longer acceptable.

Guy should of just told the person to grow up and see the world. If you see the way someone speaks as racist then you are the racist. I live in the uk and we are hugely multi cultural. You see people of all races speaking with all different accents and slang. Americans call tina tinas speak ebonics. But we have a 'chav' way of speaking in the uk which is the same thing. People of all races use it and judging by videos you see on t he internet people of all races in america use 'ebonics'. To pin point it to one race means you are a racist or ignorant to believe that, that way of speaking belongs solely to one race.

If you go on youtube and search for 'white Jamaican dad' there is a pure white guy with a very heavy stereotypical Jamaican accent. But he was born in Jamaica so its his natural way of speaking. Stick him in a game and people will cry racist. But people need to realize there is a mix of everything out there in the world.

If they used to characters accent to mock a particular race then you are getting into the racist territory but just speaking a certain way does not make anyone racist.

I don't see a problem here. Maybe it's just me.