Finally Finished and All I Have to Say Is...

Too right about the "because it's the first, it's the best." statement. I go through the same thing with me and people who play Pokemon. They tell me Gold, Silver, and Crystal are the best Pokemon games ever and completely disregard the fact that the same game has been re-released for a better system with better graphics, better sound, more Pokemon, online capabilities, and new additions to the story.

I also feel that for that very reason, Twilight Princess is better than Ocarina of Time. [=

to me, Link to the past still has the best dungeon design to me. its not overly hard but its not easy either. Same with ocarina of time. though i played that game only last year, i still liked the level designs more so then wind waker. it had a challenge to it but not an unforgiving challenge like many others at the time.

I agree that just because it was first doesn't make it the best but at the same time, there are so many things in link to the past that make it a much more fun experience then any of the other 2D zeldas, though minish cap is pretty good as well.

I may be in the rare minority but it seems I am one of the few people who played Link to the Past as a kid when it released yet still enjoyed Ocarina of Time and Wind Waker overall more as an teenager when I played them. Concerning Zelda titles it seems that the first entry that someone plays is usually the one they remember most fondly, but even with the rose tinted glasses of childhood on LttP's side I think OoT and WW are the perfect Zelda experiences. Nothing against LttP as it is my favorite super nintendo game, but the sense of exploration in addition to the sheer charm of WW and the downright total package of Ocarina slightly shift the balance for me.

It's pretty much nostalgia fags who claim the game is still great.

Nick brings up a great point with 2d zeldas being the blueprints for the 3d zeldas.
I think that Link to the Past had a bit more meaty dungeons than Ocarina of Time, but you cant really compare the two in greatness. They were both the pinnacle of Zelda on their platforms. But i think it ultimately boils down to matter of opinion in which Zelda is the "best". But in conclusion there is something to be said about how great Zelda games really are.

In the far, far future, Ocarina of Time will be harder to go back to than the simple stylings of Link to the Past.

Nick... oh hell why not?
Brad, David, and Travis,
I suggest you guys own a copy of Nintendo Power's Link to the Past Strategy Guide.
I know, it's like cheating. But I don't like the book because of that, it contains concept art of the Link to the Past universe. I enjoyed the background info of each place, the lore behind Kakariko? Town in the Dark World, the dress attire of Hyrulians, and the stories of equipment (like ice rod's background).

Not to accuse you of anything, but could your opinion have been a little tainted since you had to sit through the entire game at once? Link to the past is a somewhat long game, and having to sit through all of that gets really frustrating at times.

I always felt Link to the Past had more to do in the world that some of the other 3D Zeldas and I still like how different the dungeons are compared to each other. I believe you're right in your reference that Link to the Past is like a blueprint, where the 3D Zeldas are the actual house. I just feel like the house is still in construction though. There are still some things the 3D zeldas are lacking that the older games had. For example, the item variety.

That being said, I also believe Link to the Past also suffers from the nostalgia syndrome. Link to the Past was great, but I never felt it was as great as everyone seemed to be making it out to be. Well, if you are a die hard Zelda fan, than maybe it should be considered a "must-play".

Personally, I always liked Links Awakening the best, though that just might be nostalgia and the fact the Shopkeeper could electrocute you to death if you stole from him.

You are not really qualified to commen on the strengths of LTTP, Nick. You rushed through the game, had people telling you where to go and solving puzzles for you, and you never really had a chance to explore the world on your own or get to know it on your own terms.

In other words, you did not have the full experience of the game, only a cursory and superficial appreciation of some of the qualities on a rush-through basis. So I don't think I'm going to consider your taste to be the most informed when you try to claim OOT is better than LTTP. Other people would be better qualified to make that comparison.

Zelda is just a boring and uninspiring series, in my opinion. I never understood why so many people like it.

Oh shut up, Nick is allowed to comment on both entries in the series.

You're just saying that because you have nostalgia for OoT and not ALttP :V

Personally I found Link's Awakening to be the best, but that's just me. I haven't played all the zeldas, but I like link's awakening for it's simplicity, even though it's still quite hard.

Nick,

I understand that OoT is your favorite game of all time, and nothing shorter than a miracle will ever cause this to change. You have played through it countless times, often one right after the other, each time loving it more than the next. I get it. Now, let me tell you why playing through MY favorite game of all time ONCE does not give you the ability (or the right!) to accurately judge Link to the Past.

First, there is nostalgia. You obviously know that nostalgia can have an influence your judgments. However, for some reason, every time you talk about Ocarina of Time, you discount it. LttP never had a chance, because when you first put that OoT cartridge in your N64, you were a wide eyed, young kid with limited gaming experience. The first time you saw Link ride Epona over that hill, you were probably very near to crapping your pants with anticipation. However, now you are a grown man who has probably played hundreds of games. You were pretty much forced into this experience; plus, you had to rush through it. This is not the way that we should play games. Video games should be a treat: something that we do for fun, something that we do properly. Link to the Past never had a chance, because you never gave it a chance.

Now, let’s talk about graphics. These days, graphics often become more important than the story (this part is for you, Mr. Lucas!). People do not realize that when the graphics are outdated in 2 months, there will be nothing left. The story of Beowulf has been around for 1500 years. However, when the movie came out a couple of years ago, all people talked about were the graphics (and Angelina’s boobies). What the crap? Just because something is 3D does not mean it has better graphics than something that is 2D. In fact, circa 1997, it probably meant it was WORSE. We remember games like OoT and FF7 because they stood out from the gimmicky “Hey look we are in 3D!” games that were coming out. And as I always say, “A pile of crap might be better than a pile of shit, but it’s still a pile of crap!” (I, in fact, never say that.) What I am trying to say is to take 3D out of the equation. It shouldn’t (read: doesn’t) matter!

As we all now, the reason we keep coming back to Zelda games is the story. So if we compare the stories of the two games in question. In Link to the Past, you go to three dungeons: fire, water and earth. Then, you use these three items to get the Master sword, which is the only weapon that can defeat Ganon. However, then you get transported to a darker Hyrule, which is ruled by Ganon! You must battle your way through several dungeons in order to save seven people that will help you battle Ganon. An epic battle ensues, but Link emerges victorious, and Hyrule is saved! Yay!

In Ocarina of Time, however, you got to THREE dungeons: fire, water and … wait a minute!

Of course, I am only poking fun here. This is a pretty common theme in Zelda games. The reason I bring it up, is be

The whole old vs. new fiasco boils down to whether it is best of its time or best overall.

Nick is not letting nostalgia cloud him, he never hints at that if you fanboys would learn to read.

I for one, played the very first LoZ. Link's Awakening, and LttP before OoT, and I will also say that OoT is the much better game as the developers clearly took into account what they learned in the prior Legend of Zelda's. Ocarina of Time has a much better and explained story (We even learn a bit about Link this time around :D) and the sidequests and secrets were a bit more fun to me.

Like everyone has said, LttP did have better dungeons and much harder bosses (some of them are Bullshit hard) but OoT does a much better job of making you absorb the environment and had much better music. Although some of that music was remixed from LttP, it came out much better. The older LoZ's are still good games (except for the first one since it's a pain in the ass) but OoT surpassed and improved on those old mechanics and put them in 3D.

I find it funny that its usually Nick's blog posts that get all the fanboys mad. :P

Not to mention, if the Zelda that Nintendo announces in a few weeks is drastically different for a Zelda game, I hope to god that I enjoy it more. If I like that game more than OoT, then I will admit to it and say it is better, end of story.

Holy shit... what if the new Zelda was a 2D (or Isometric) Zelda on the Wii! I would play that! Fuck, I would be ecstatic!

and you know what....

I would expect them to make improvements to the classic formula if the next Zelda was 2D as well.

I don't really care whether the new Zelda is 2D or 3D. 2D Zelda like LTTP is great just like 3D Zelda like OoT.

If I have to say, I prefer LTTP (played it after OoT on GBA so no nostalgia factor for me). The fact is, OoT is beautiful but some graphics in the game disgust me like the Fountain Fairy (UGLY!). LTTP didn't have those "flaws", being 2D but it doesn't matter.

Story-wise, OoT is better I guess.
Music, both are great.
A little faster gameplay for LTTP maybe.
I'd say LTTP is solid but outdated and OoT is polished yet flawed.

I can understand where you're coming from Nick. Honestly. ALttP was hard for me to play too. I think it's because I played Ocarina of Time first, and it was hard to "revert" back to 2D graphics because I wasn't used to it. Either way, I'm glad it was enjoyable experience for you, hope to hear more about it on the show.

I agree with you about the ugly fairies Omega... they were like hillbilly cross dressers with boobs

All valid points guys

Nick, I think your points are valid. I always wish that you would broadcast more often, but to sit down doing your first broadcast in a while and face a game where: you were under a tight time constraint; you faced your gaming style against many top ten lists; and you had the most frustrating and complicated game. Made me extremely happy for you and I hope your proud of this achievement, and after all the struggle I am glad that you were still able to enjoy this game, so thank you for sticking with it Nick. I hope you will be appearing more regularly on broadcasts. Thanks Nick!

im glad everyone out there isn't going to look down at a great game for graphics thats one of the reasons i still go back to the classics

hmm you could say that the 2d zelda game is almost like a blueprint for the 3d zelda game... but then again you could also say that the 3d zelda game is an interpretation of the 2d game .. where things may get changed up or warped from the original 2d game. does a 2d game always have to be a blueprint for the 3d game? meh your right though .. in the case of zelda making it into 3d relized the dream the 2d game never got to fufill.

I am an avid listener, donator and overall fan of the 4PP. It is one of my favorite podcasts. I am looking forward to hearing your opinion, Nick.

Unlike certain other listeners who have already ruled out your opinion, I expect you to be more professional than to rag on the games overall design just because you sucked at it. Because, yes, I do think you realized that you certainly weren't very good at Zelda:ALTTP and it wasn't so much the games fault.

When an overwhelming majority of the people who played the game didn't have it ruined to them by the difficulty or game design, then yeah, it's certainly not the games fault if a few sucked at it.

HEY GUYS, you should probably give Nick the benefit of the doubt. While Nick might suck at certain games, he does recognize and appreciate the games nonetheless. Look at Bayonetta, even though he was awarded Stone Trophy after Stone Trophy for his inadequate performance, it still landed in his Top 20, if not Top 15 GOTY list.

A few day's before you started your marathon of A Link to the Past,( I think it was the day you talked about what games you planned to do on M-week, It reminded me that I still had a save on the game. I then continued playing the game.
I forgot how hard the game was, and finding enough heart pieces to not die is always a chore. However, It has great level design, Interesting characters, and Cool weapons. So far I'm really enjoying aLttP.

However, Ocarina of Time will always hold a special place in my mind as a epic adventure. Seriously, it had everything.

Exploring dangerous dungeons.
Solving ancient puzzles.
Sword fighting horrible monsters.
Helping the poor townsfolk.
Finding a magic sword.
Riding through vast stretches of land on horseback.
Collecting rare artifacts.
Slaying dragons.
Rescuing a damsel in distress.

I haven't played Twilight Princess yet, or Wind Waker. Hell I haven't even played Majora's Mask yet. So I can't compare the games.

I just got to say it was great to see you not giving up and instead kept on playing until you finished it, Nick.

Personally I played through A Link to the Past and for the first time (had an NES and then moved to computer gaming back in the days) before Project M and really enjoyed it. I also started playing Ocarina of Time, but never finished it due to the marathon competition starting. I must admit OoT was a bit harder to get into at the start, but I will give it another go one day.